Episode 111: Season 1 Finale - Looking Back and Moving Forward with Nat Kalbach and Chelsea Castro

About This Episode

In this special season finale, Nat sits down with her dear friend Chelsea Castro, Vice President of the Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy, for what starts as playful banter between two "separated at birth" preservation enthusiasts who find profound meaning in skeleton keys tucked in leather satchels and vintage clothing hidden in walls. But as their wandering conversation unfolds, something deeper emerges: a surprising web of connections threading through Season 1 that reveals how every guest - from jazz host Ted Chubb to ceramic artist Jin Jung to storytelling consultant Thaler Pekar - shares unexpected geographic, thematic, and philosophical overlaps. It's a conversation about the silly and the profound, ultimately discovering how curiosity, community care, and the simple act of showing up creates the fabric of neighborhood life.

Meet Chelsea Castro

Chelsea Castro is a first-generation American with Portuguese immigrant parents, an art director and designer who has called Jersey City home for eight years. As Vice President of the Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy, she's passionate about preserving not just historic buildings, but the cultural narratives and community stories that make neighborhoods truly vibrant.

Key Insights:

• The "Tell Me More" Ethic: From Charlene's "information is power" to Thaler's storytelling methodology to Jin's silent ceramic markers - every guest embodies deep curiosity about community and place

• Unexpected Geographic Overlaps: St. John's Episcopal Church appears in both Thaler's healthcare history and the broader community care narrative; 111 First Street connects Tris's cultural stories to Jin's "We're Here" memorial project

• Democratized Culture as Core Value: Ted's living room jazz, Colin's "palace for the people" theater, Kim and Ann's accessible nature education - creating spaces where everyone belongs

• Historic Preservation = Cultural Preservation: Chelsea, Nat and Kelly's work shows preservation isn't about freezing buildings in time, but honoring the evolving stories of who makes neighborhoods home

• The Power of Simply Showing Up: Charlene's three-minute advocacy rule echoes through every guest's approach to community engagement

• Immigrant Eyes, Local Hearts: Jin, Chelsea and Nat's shared experience of learning place through lived stories rather than media representations

Visual Documentation

Chelsea and Nat at Loew’s Theatre for a tour of the restoration site

Roosevelt Stadium, Jersey City which hosted the legendary Jersey City' Giant’s season opener debuting Jackie Robinson on April 18, 1946 - the game we mentioned Mrs. India attended along with ca. 51,900 other people from Jersey City!

Resources

• The Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy

• Episodes of Season 1 of Nat’s Sidewalk Stories

• The Old German Bakery in Hoboken

• If These Walls Could Talk - Nat’s Art Show at Novado Gallery

Looking Ahead

While Nat takes a well-deserved break to prepare for her solo art exhibition opening September 6, 2025 at Novado Gallery (featuring paintings inspired by Jersey City neighborhoods), Season 2 promises even deeper dives into the connections and stories that emerged in these first conversations. So stay tuned for more interconnected stories, deeper exploration of community threads discovered in Season 1, and continued celebration of people who make Jersey City’s neighborhoods vibrant through preservation, art, advocacy, and simple acts of showing up!

Connect with Nat

Website: natkalbach.com

Substack: natkalbach.substack.com

Instagram: @natkalbach

Email: podcast@natkalbach.com

Credits

Our theme music is "How You Amaze Me," composed by Jim Kalbach and performed by Jim Kalbach, Bryan Beninghove, Charlie Siegler, and Pat Van Dyke.

Nat's Sidewalk Stories explores the places, people, and hidden histories that make our neighborhoods vibrant through conversations with practitioners, community leaders, and local changemakers.

Full Transcript

NSSP 111 with Chelsea Castro and Nat Kalbach

Note: This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and readability while preserving the conversation's content and meaning. This episode contains brief discussion of reproductive healthcare history and historical medical cases

Nat Kalbach: Welcome to Nat's Sidewalk Stories. I'm Nat Kalbach, an artist and storyteller exploring the places, people, and hidden histories that make our neighborhoods vibrant. Today marks the end of my first season and I'm super thrilled to be joined by my dear friend Chelsea Castro, who's not only my friend, she's also the Vice President of the Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy, and I wanted to have her for a special conversation to kind of look back at what we've discovered together about all the podcast interviews of season one, and we often joke that we are separated at birth. Twins born in different years. You be the judge who's older of us. But we're sharing an uncanny connection to historic preservation and community stories, and of course, Jersey City hidden treasures.

In this conversation, you will hear about finding vintage clothing in walls to discovering skeleton keys in leather satchels. And our conversation today really weaves between the profound and the absolutely silly playfulness of exploring what these first 10 episodes revealed about our city and ourselves.

So without further ado, here we go.

I am here with my friend Chelsea Castro. I'm super excited. I thought it would be fun to have Chelsea as a guest for the last episode of Season one. Hi, Chelsea. So exciting.

Chelsea Castro: Hi, I'm so honored.

Nat Kalbach: Yay. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Chelsea Castro: Yes. My name is Chelsea Castro. I am a New Jerseyan, born and raised, first generation American, actually with Portuguese immigrant parents, and I've been living in Jersey City for about eight years. I'm an art director and a designer and I would say a historic preservation enthusiast just like you.

Nat Kalbach: Just like me. I love that.

So Chelsea and I, we live not far from each other and we are thinking that we are separated by birth. Time traveling. This makes no sense for anyone but us, I guess.

Chelsea Castro: Absolutely. To give you guys context, we were separated at birth but born in two different years. And we have an age gap as friends, but we are literally twins and agree on everything and have the same interests. And we met and we just became like glue. Yeah. The rest was history.

Nat Kalbach: Exactly. So here we are now. You get a podcast. Exactly. With the two of us.

One of the questions that I've asked everyone in the season and that I would love to ask you too is if you could meet someone from Jersey City's past, who would that be? Where would that person and you be meeting, and what would be the question you would ask?

Chelsea Castro: Can I cheat and have multiple people for meeting in the same place?

Nat Kalbach: In the same place? It's a party.

Chelsea Castro: Yeah, it's a party. I'm gonna cheat a little bit. I live in a home on Kensington Avenue, and it's my first home and I think it's something that really got me into the actual research component of historic preservation and actually researching things that felt very close to you and very relevant outside of family history.

And selfishly, I think I would like to meet with every woman or mother who's lived in my home prior to me and I'd like to meet them at the home. Because I think that something I've been thinking a lot about recently is women's stories and mothers and daughters and the women experience. But I'd love to hear from their perspective about the neighborhood and how they lived their lives and what their challenges were. I think if I had to ask one question, it would be, what do you want to change about the house? And why. I think I would love to have a really intimate, small conversation. Because you and me both know, we love every single story from Jersey City.

We're like voracious, we can't get enough. We just want to know everything. And I really want to, because the house is so intimate to me, I really want to know what their lives were like living there. You know, were they raising kids? I know a lot of them were art teachers, which always blew my mind because I'm a creative person, artist in some ways, and I think it's amazing that the house always drew creative people. But yeah, I'd really love to speak to those women, but that's why I'm cheating. We're all meeting at the house, we're meeting in the parlor or the front room, or however, I don't even know how it was. It's been sliced and diced so many ways.

But that's sort of my little version of if these walls could talk.

Nat Kalbach: I love that. So Chelsea actually has a really amazing piece of clothing. And can you describe what it is and where you found it?

Chelsea Castro: Yes. It is a seventies polyester black and white gingham two piece sort of get up. I wouldn't even call it a suit. Short sleeve, like bigger buttons, somewhat of a kick flare pant. Very sort of pointed collar. That fits me perfectly.

Nat Kalbach: It looks so good.

Chelsea Castro: Which makes sense. Yeah. Because it's my clothes. But I found it during the renovation of my home, I opened up a wall and there were a bunch of boxes back there. I think hoarded boxes full of paperwork and letters and books and Readers Digest, so much Reader's Digest. And one of the things that was intact was this suit. And I couldn't believe it. It's exactly my taste. I love it dearly. And when I cleaned it and put it on and it fit me like a glove, I kind of was mind blown.

And whenever I wear it and people compliment me, which I'm always so honored, I always get to tell people. They say, where did you get it? And I'm like, my house gave it to me. My house gave it to me. It's my house suit. And it's incredible. And it makes me feel so connected to my house, it dressed me, it was in the walls.

Nat Kalbach: That's so cool. It's crazy. Have you ever asked yourself the question, who would that person be? Was she going out with it? Was that like her work get up? Or was it like a going out, get up? Or like who was that person wearing it?

Chelsea Castro: That's a great question. That's so funny. I read actually in these boxes, which is a gift in itself, there was lots of letters from the family that lived there in the seventies and letters from the mother to the father and the mother to the children and the children to the father and all this stuff.

And so I got this really strange glimpse into who they were. I've been trying to track them down. But I kind of got a glimpse into their life and I learned the names of the children and I learned the situation of the mother. And I'm assuming it's hers, even though there were daughters there. But actually now that I think about it, it probably belonged to the daughters. Because I feel like it was very in fashion. And it feels even relevant now. So it must have been, maybe, you know, I don't know, maybe she was 20, maybe you're right. She was a working girl and she was putting on this outfit and it was her little pants suit and she was feeling herself.

I hope it, I actually hope it was one of the young girls.

Nat Kalbach: So there's something so cool about finding things in a wall. I remember when I was an apprentice in a law office, yes, before I was an artist. I had a life in Germany that was different, very different, a colorful life. It was not very colorful, but it was different, a different color many years ago, ages ago.

But there I was with another apprentice and we were doomed. We did something wrong. I remember. And then they had us like go into the attic and file, or find files to shred or whatever. We had, it was in the middle of the summer it was hot. It was not a fun job. Yeah. And we were like, this is the best job ever. We are away. We don't have to do any of the other stuff. We're here with paperwork. And we moved a shelf or shelving unit. And we found this little kind of nook in the wall and in it was a Chapeau Claque. It's like a top hat that you can collapse.

Oh. And it was in the original packaging. And with it was an 1800s version of collected work by Shakespeare in German. Wow. So my friend took the Chapeau Claque, or I'm not French either, so it sounds terrible. It's a German saying something in English in America, but you get the picture. Collapsible top hat sounds weird.

And I took the Shakespeare book, which I still have. Wow. But we were like so intrigued that we found it in this old building so we were like, you know, when I watched Dead Poet Society. Yes. We always thought that this was a version of it where some young guys who met in the attic and they would read Shakespeare in German with the hat on, like, I don't know. Wow. But yeah, it was such a weird find.

Chelsea Castro: Wow. Do you remember the first time you ever found treasure? Something that I would call treasure. Yeah. Because treasure for a 20-year-old is different than treasure for a 3-year-old. When was the first, do you remember the first time you found something and you're like, this is treasure. Like this is just here for me.

Nat Kalbach: Oh, I think that's maybe a little emotional, weird story. But when I was 12, my mother had met my stepfather who was a very great man, and so we moved from a city to the countryside, which by the way was like really terrible. But anyway, but he lived in a house from the 1500s, which was amazing. It was this half timbered, insane house with all kinds of really cool things.

But he had a chest, like a treasure chest, actually. Yes. In the living room. And it was filled with coming of age books, which he had somehow found on a flea market. And he bought it before he met my mother.

And so I opened that chest and he was like, yeah, I think these books could be interesting for you. And there it was a big chest full of books and I loved nothing more than books. Wow. And that was definitely like, this is a treasure box just for me. Did the chest come with the books already?

Yes.

Chelsea Castro: So this man who had no children at the time,

Nat Kalbach: He had children, but they were not with him. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chelsea Castro: Bought a chest full of coming of age books.

Nat Kalbach: Maybe because of his children too, but they were just like in his living room and he had like taking them out or whatever. So I'm sure I had treasures before, but that would be my first memory of something like that. Wow.

Chelsea Castro: Would probably feel very similar. It's like, you want to find a message in the wall, you want to find the collapsible top hat like you want to find, even if it's a little something.

And so when I found that box, that was like a huge treasure to me because my home, as you know, had many, many different owners. Because it was one of those hot potatoes. Sometimes a home is a hot potato, you know? And there's preservation through neglect. And there's also, I guess, the opposite of preservation. What's that?

Destruction. Destruction through destruction. Destruction through involvement.

Chelsea Castro: That's sort of what she suffered from. And so to find that when it was already so hard for me to find pieces of her history was like treasure to me. But before we move on from that house that you mentioned, one of my favorite stories of yours is the keys to the house.

Nat Kalbach: It was one key. It was a very, oh my God. I'm like, oh God, it's so embarrassing. It was an embarrassing experience as a child, it was a very big heavy oak door. It's a farmhouse, so it wasn't like anything fancy or whatever, but it was a heavy door, which my stepfather, I call him father and my mother, they were like very much into preserving things and they took off layers and layers of paint of that door with a heat gun and a scraper. But it came with an insane, probably like, how much is it? Like seven or eight inches long. A big key. A like a skeleton key. Yes, yes.

Chelsea Castro: Some sort of heavy metal eight inch skeleton key. I picture it. Yeah. Because when you told me about it and you told me a little bit more about it and how it was so heavy and so cumbersome that, and it was embarrassing.

Nat Kalbach: Yeah. Because like no one had that it's like the eighties and people know I'm aging myself, but dating myself, like a cheese, like a gouda cheese in the fridge.

Chelsea Castro: And you're gouda, you're so gouda.

Nat Kalbach: So, yeah. And I had to carry it around. And also my parents were like a little bit different maybe, that everyone had a freaking backpack and I wanted a backpack, but no, they gave me like a leather satchel. Because that's so cool. It's really cool. I know back then it was not cool when you're the only one with a leather satchel.

And then you have a really, really big key in it. And it actually made a hole in one of the corners that was like, sewn together because it was just like poking in there. And oh, oh, oh, one more thing is, we also didn't have a doorbell. We actually had. I don't know. My stepfather was an electrician, so you would think that, but, what's the American saying?

No, he was against Big Doorbell. He didn't want to support Big Doorbell. No. But like, is there this American saying, or English saying the cobbler's children have the worst shoes, or something like that. You know

Chelsea Castro: What? I've never heard it. No, but I believe it. I believe it if you say it. No, it is a saying. I love that saying, I don't know. Come on someone, please write us later please. And say that I was right. I grew up with Portuguese immigrant parents, and up until I was in high school, I called my room a Pig Stein because I didn't know it was a pigsty. And I still say open the lights. So I really don't know anything about this cobbler.

Whoever that cobbler is, whoever he is, I'm so sad that he's bad at taking care of his children's shoes. But so to this point, the electrician, of course, has the worst electrician in his own house, of course.

Nat Kalbach: So he was like so lazy for years and years to put like a doorbell in. So we had a big bell where you have to shake the bottom, you know, like, yep. And it's so funny because now I think back and I'm like that, like actually all of this was really cool. Yes. And all my friends they also thought it was very cool.

Yep. So you change your perspective later and you're like. My God, these people were so quirky. A hundred percent.

Chelsea Castro: And I remember you telling me this and I remember sitting there like, I'm sure, I hope the listeners are as well, thinking like, while you're telling the story, what is she talking about? That's the coolest thing ever. Like I pictured you just like punk rock, leather satchel, heavy weathered corner with a large, thick, heavy metal skeleton key hanging out of it, you know? And I'm like, so you're telling me when you got home, you took out like, and I pictured the key in Cinderella.

There's a scene where the evil stepmother, she locks Cinderella in the room and she puts the key in her pocket and she like taps the key with her hand and they animated it so that you're seeing the key jingle around her pocket. And I just picture you just tapping the key in your little leather satchel.

And I always thought it was the coolest thing when you told me that, and I'm happy that you pointed out that you love it now, because I think that that's also part of like these stories where in the moment you're like, geez. But it's awesome. Like, I thought it was kind of annoying that my mom always liked old stuff.

She would pick up stuff from the side of the road and then like sand it and refurbish it, and then we'd keep it and I'd be like, that's garbage. Yeah. And then give me another year or two. And I was like, wow, that's a steal. I love that you save money.

And it's interesting, you know, and the perspective changes, but I think that that's so cool.

Nat Kalbach: It's so interesting, right? Are your parents also interested in history or in like, old things then?

Chelsea Castro: Yeah. Yeah. My mom, it wasn't necessarily history. I think there's a certain level of national pride that gets instilled with you. Growing up in Portugal, we'd have our little dictatorship background and all that fun stuff, but there was a sense of like nationalism. So they understood their own history, but it wasn't over the top. And they weren't like history academics by any means. But the funny thing is with my mom, she was always into secondhand stuff and estate sales and, it maybe didn't necessarily come out of a love for history.

Maybe came out a little bit of both. A love for history, but also a love of, I don't know, maybe it's a residual scarcity mentality from her childhood. She would hate for me to say, but it's like, let's keep it and keep it going. And there's no need for newness, which I think is a great trait.

She always brought me to estate sales. And I think that created this sense of, I want to know what's happening inside. Because every time I went into a new estate sale, I was like, this house looks nothing like mine. And then my dad, I think whenever I would go visit my grandparents on my dad's side in Portugal, Portugal was a little bit slow to update compared to my experience in America.

And so when I visited there, I felt like I was stepping into the past compared to my life here. And so while it wasn't necessarily a passion for history on that side, I felt like I was a rock throw away from everything. I was a rock throw away from where my grandfather grew up. The church where my mom and dad and grandmother and grandfather and great-grandmother and great-grandfather were married and baptized as the same church where my niece was most recently baptized where I was baptized.

And so I felt the history felt really, really close. So it felt like it was always around. But I think that estate sale situation that my mom would always drag us to, which I hated when I was younger, and now I could not beg more people to go with me to estate sales, gave me that feeling of wanting to know.

Nat Kalbach: You mentioned that when we were going back to Portugal, that you often felt like you were in a time capsule. And that reminded me that there's one place that is in Hoboken. It's not here. That makes me feel like I'm going into a time capsule in 1982 or 85 in Germany. And it is the German bakery in Hoboken.

Oh. Because they have bought the absolute everything in their interior from a German bakery. And when you go inside and you are from Germany, you think you are back in the eighties.

The little plate where you put the change and the money on the counter. Wow. Which I, maybe that is a German thing that you put something instead of right on the counter, you put it on a change count like plate. But anyway, every single thing in there it's like somewhere on the countryside.

Wow. In Germany. And it's so funny that they bought the interior and they're a great bakery by the way too. But it really makes me feel like I'm traveling back to 85, in a little village somewhere in West Germany.

Chelsea Castro: Wow. That, that is amazing.

Is there a place, if you had all the funds in the world, what sort of place would you rebuild for other people to experience that might not necessarily be able to experience normally here in Jersey?

Nat Kalbach: I think that's such a hard question, right? Because the places, they're only so important for you because you connect them with something.

Chelsea Castro: They're subjective, right?

Nat Kalbach: Like, I mean, that's part of what I find so interesting, maybe about talking to so many people in Jersey City too. That the one thing that connects us is the city. So I don't know if I could take something from Germany and put it here. There would be no connection maybe for other people to experience.

Can I cheat? So far I started the podcast cheating.

Okay. That's, so I think the cheating's allowed here. So Tris was talking about 111 First Street, artist community that was downtown. And I mentioned and then wrote an article after I interviewed him about a very similar place in Germany that actually had a very, very similar trajectory.

It was also 200 artists. It was actually 11 buildings that were bought by a developer in the Netherlands. And he wanted to tear it down. And those artists squatted the buildings and started a campaign to say we should have our space here.

And they opened their studios to the public and everything, and it went the other way. Then 111 first street here in Jersey City, the city of Hamburg actually bought it back. And to this day, these artists are there and it's actually in every tourist guide.

Wow. That you buy about our city in Hamburg, you will find this as a place to go and experience culture and art. So if I could transport something, then maybe not, like I would want it to have the artists of Jersey City in there, of course. But I would transport like something like this to that empty lot down at 111 first street.

And occupy that with a warehouse or from that area. Yes. And say, let's do it again and see how we can keep it this time and invite all those artists back that had been there and ask them to take their space and make this a like. Another and different experience. Yeah. That's a cheaty way, but

Chelsea Castro: I don't think, I think that you didn't cheat, you didn't bring necessarily the exact same thing. But what I like is that you resurrected something. You know, and I think that it didn't work for Jersey City at the time. It was not the outcome that maybe a lot of people wanted. But I think you're right. It could work today. I think that the way that the city's growing, I think that, you know, it feels like a very buzzword, a very like toy word, but there is a growing need and like a yearning for third spaces, places where people can go and not necessarily be at home or be at work.

And I think personally, maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but a lot of the times artists do create those spaces, you know? Because yes, they're creating there, they're painting there, but they're also having friends come over and you meet this person and that person and you speak and it's. I think just a very natural human way to get to know people.

I think that we could use a space like that. Because we do have MANA, but it's a different thing. One is a little bit more established and thank God the city has it.

But a space like you're talking about is one that's sort of a little bit rough and tumble and that sort of guerrilla takes over a space that maybe was seen as not needed before or something that was sort of ready to be thrown away.

Nat Kalbach: Yeah. And I think like to that point also, that is such an interesting part of learning more about the city and understanding where we are now. So that I don't necessarily want to bring something, I love the question, but I feel like there's so much here. Yeah. That could be discovered. Or there could be something happening. I know you and I both very, very adamant about hoping that the powerhouse at some point will be revived and that could be a cool artist space.

Yep. Yep. And we are not the first ones to have the idea.

Chelsea Castro: But you want to know what, like the more people that feel this way in my mind, the better.

I so badly want to make everyone who lives in that area aware of the history and what happened to the building. And it's not a one man job. And I know that everyone probably is like, yes, we know. But when you see buildings like that, that are cathedrals, and we've talked about this.

Because we both know John Gomez, the founder of the Jersey Landmarks Conservancy, his writing for the landmark designation. We were both, to give John his flowers moved to tears over the way that he spoke about this building, which makes us super nerds, because of the way that he spoke about it as a cathedral.

I think that we need places like that. Gosh, don't you know, how amazing would it be if the powerhouse was like an art space? I also dream it could be great if it had like community space, community theater.

Nat Kalbach: Maybe it has a Chelsea market. Yeah. You know. Oh, oh yeah. Chelsea Market. Oh, that's so funny.

Chelsea Castro: I think I've heard that name before.

And I think that downtown is packed tight. Yeah. It is packed tight. It is a can of sardines at this point. Yeah. And I love downtown because I used to live there before I moved to the west side. How beautiful would it be to take a space that's been there for so long?

That's such a huge part of Jersey City history. Even New York history. It's what connected us. Yeah. It was the powerhouse for the PATH trains and all that. And bring it back into our modern day.

Nat Kalbach: But yeah, that would be cool if that something happens with that. We would be all up for it. Definitely. I would, oh my God. I would,

Chelsea Castro: I would move mountains. Yeah. The hard thing is, I don't know, I sometimes I get discouraged because it's like one person can't do it. But then I have moments like Charlene's episode. Yeah. Charlene was just like, it only takes one, it just takes one person to show up. My sister was asking me just yesterday about how she wants to get involved in advocacy for historic structures in Asbury Park. And she's like, you're into that stuff. What do I do? And I thought about Charlene and I said, show up to the meeting.

Yeah.

Chelsea Castro: Take your three minutes. Even if you have nothing great to say, say, Hey, I just don't really like that we're taking down all these old buildings. You know what I mean? Show up. Because I know that Charlene is right, that people don't show up to these meetings.

They seem annoying. They're at weird times. And it's, I don't know, some people think it's done purposefully, but it's just the time. It is, unfortunately. And everyone has lives, but showing up is so important. And I think that Charlene made that so clear.

Nat Kalbach: Yeah. I love that. That was one of the reoccurring themes I thought that, I know you haven't been able to listen to all the episodes yet. Were there for the episodes that you have heard so far, did you feel that there was a reoccurring theme that you could hear out from season one?

Chelsea Castro: Well first I'll just say I was surprised by how many connections they ended up having over time. Like Thaler talking about St. John's just shocked me because the stories she shared was one that I was not aware of. Of it sort of being the start of this accessible sort of health clinic for underserved people or even things that were taboo, like abortion care and all those sort of things. Women's healthcare was incredible, but then, Tris. Yep. Tris talked about, you know, 111 first Street and then later I'm seeing like Jin made a piece with We're Here for that area and the connection was there as well. And then we know Charlene through a lot of historic preservation work and she talks about all these different buildings and I feel like I haven't listened to all of them, but I do know some of your guests and I would love at the end to create like a sort of master Venn diagram chart of all the ways that everyone overlaps. Yeah. Because you get these diverse guests with these totally different perspectives.

And you're not necessarily always talking about a building. Yeah. You're talking about, you know, you're talking about music, you're talking about culture, you're talking about advocacy, you're talking about sense of place, which does overlap. All because you're talking about storytelling, but yet. There are these sort of overlaps in everybody, and I know it is because we're, a lot of the times we're talking about Jersey City.

But it's not necessarily just the place, it's like we were talking about before, it's like the humanity. You know what I mean? It's these reoccurring themes of, excuse my French, but just giving a shit. Yeah. Yeah. And caring. Yeah. Like Thaler said, caring to ask, tell me about a time.

And tell me more. I think Jin in her own way without being able to get the response in her work is asking Yeah. Tell me more. In her research, in her way of creating a marker for something that can no longer speak for itself is sort of beckoning the community to ask, tell me more about this space.

Charlene was saying, get more information. Tell me more information is power. Like, arm yourself. You know, Tris. Tell me more about community. Tell me more about art and music and how it connects people. I think there's this curiosity and burning desire to understand who you are in the context of bigger things.

Whether it's building or a city like Jersey City, which we always call, or at least I do. I think we do together, a little big city. Yeah. Because it is, it totally is. Yeah.

Nat Kalbach: I see that too. I think that's totally true. There's also, I think something about, like something highly democratized culture. Yep. That I see as a very, very big theme that things are there for the common good. Like Ted Chubb opening up his home with his wife. Yeah. Rachel. For jazz musicians and the audience and having people basically listening to music in their living room.

Or Colin talked about the Loew's theater and how that was like the palace for the people and people from all sorts of life could come there and watch a movie and that's why it felt like so important to the people of Jersey City to save the building.

Kim and Anne talking about gardens and native Gardens that are for everyone.

Or also like how people would pay it forward. Irene was talking about other artists helping younger artists to get their footing here in Jersey City. And so there's really something about giving to the greater good or to others.

And it made me feel in a time that is a little depressing and really hard to scary believe. Yeah. To believe in the good of people. It actually made me very hopeful and happy because I was like, wow, there's so many people that give their time, their space, their thinking, their energy, to something bigger than themselves in the city.

And that's something that I find in my research very often that you hear from Yeah. You hear from Hague, and yada, yada, yada. And here he is again. It's like everyone talks about the big people of the city, but there were these everyday people that did shit like that, that made a difference, even if small for a lot of people in the city.

And they were building the fabric of the city. There are always good people around. And they're the ones that hopefully succeed by being open and opening their hearts and minds to other people and letting them join their efforts or their task or their cultural experience. That's beautiful. Wow. That was soapy, huh?

Chelsea Castro: No, it was, but it's true. I'm sitting here and it makes me a little emotional because Jersey City is in my mind, the underdog, and I feel like it always has been, and you're telling me this, and it feels like it's reoccurring, you know?

Because I think the underdog doesn't have room to be picky and choosy. It's just trying to make it at all costs, and to your point, democratize, yeah. Everything, history, community garden music spaces, like the Loew's, which like, I haven't heard Colin's episode, but I'm a certified Colin super fan.

It's this feeling of, I'm fixing it, I'm making it and I'm doing it and it's not for me. It's for everybody. And I think that's, I think that's so beautiful.

Nat Kalbach: There's something cool about being the underdog in a way too, right? Yeah. Like where, Irene said that in her episode where she was like, well, teaches you resilience and, you gotta live with what you have, which I know it's in some ways also romanticized when you hear it just like that. Sure. Out of context. But that's not how Irene of course, was talking about it. But I feel like it's like the underdog soccer club in Germany, in Hamburg, which is Sankt Pauli, which is like anti-fascist.

They go and they like demonstrate and they hear the best music and they're like fun doing anything but playing soccer. Yeah. Well, yeah, they're not the greatest soccer players, unfortunately. They're actually so cool that there is a Sankt Pauli Brooklyn St. Pauli fan club where you can go to in Brooklyn and watch the game.

Brooklyn. Yes, it's really freaking awesome. You cannot watch the game before. Tell anyone how the game ends because of course we are six hours back, so of course you can't spoil it, but it's a really cool, it's a really cool bar and it's really fun to go there. But anyway, we also have this like very established, like that's like the New York, right?

Sure. Like that's HSV football club. And they're like, Chelsea Football Club.

I think we lost like everyone because the European talking football, they're like, what's happening? Yeah, but it's like, I feel like that, and there's like, it's boring. Yeah. Like everyone can be for the big football club. Totally. You gotta be for the underdog. Totally. Totally.

Chelsea Castro: The underdog. You want to know what the big football club won't do? The big football club won't surprise you. Yep. You know the underdog will surprise you. Yep. You know they're gonna have the best music and when they win, when they win, oh, oh. When the underdog wins. Don't get me started. Oh my God. When an underdog wins, I think it's euphoria.

Yep. I think it's euphoria. And you want to know who's an underdog?

Nat Kalbach: Hmm.

Chelsea Castro: Little girl carrying a skeleton key in her satchel. Okay.

And you want to know what? We're bringing it back. We're bringing it back. Stop.

Sorry guys. I'm sorry. Sorry. I'm sorry. Sorry. No one came here for the chatter and the rebuttals. I know. And all the silliness. So sorry. I would hope so. Well, they've, they've gone this far and they've listened to all this amazing stories. Right. That they should, they should, you know, we're just talking, talking.

Have a break now.

Nat Kalbach: Yeah. We're just chitchatting. We're going back to like super, like serious stuff.

Totally. Back in season two.

Chelsea Castro: But question for you. Yes. Is, I think I have two questions. First one, if you had to answer. Who are you making the podcast for?

Nat Kalbach: Wow. That is a good question. Well, that's like such a marketing question, isn't it? Like I, okay. No, I'm kidding. I didn't ask. I'm kidding. Who's the audience? I'm kidding.

But yes. I think it's like me too. Which is very selfish. But also for people that I don't know, I think like for anyone who wants to learn about other people that share the place that you are in.

And I will say why, like, why for myself, there's something that Jin said that really resonated with me that I think that is really true for myself. That is when you are moving somewhere, especially as an immigrant, there's a need or a way to get to learn or to try to understand the place where you are.

And even though, as a German, you watch American movies, you listen to American music too, I mean, you can't, you can't get away from your Americans, right? So, don't even try. Exactly. Don't even to joke right now. But we have Arnold Schwarzenegger, right?

You thought you did. Wait, wait. He's Austrian, but he has a similar accent you weren't supposed to notice.

Chelsea Castro: But no, you can't get away from Americans no matter how hard you try.

Nat Kalbach: So, so there's a lot of things that you, you kind of know you have seen all those places on TV, even if you haven't been here. Right? That is not the same as experiencing it. That, but when you move here, you're like, wow, this is, this is still a very unknown culture. Even though you thought, you know a lot about it. And then you're going more granular and you're like, wow, what happened? Like, what is the history of the place where I'm at?

I don't want to just be here and annex it as my own. I like, you know, make, make, make it your own or whatever. What's that slogan for Jersey City? Make it yours. Make it yours. Right. Jersey City. Make it yours. Yeah. You don't want to make it yours? No, just like yours.

You're like, I want to actually want to know what's yours. Like, like where did you make it? Ours, like, make it ours. Like, can I have a little space too? But let me first know what's here. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And, and I think that's the more selfish part of learning about people that live here. And I feel, especially with stories like 111 First Street as an artist, it clicked a little bit more about what's going on with the Powerhouse.

There's more now where you understand where certain people come from. So it's a part of making yourself also home and being part of the community and understanding the culture and where you are at.

And then for other people, I think, one of the interesting things that I learned when I was, very early in the city, I answered a call like 12 years ago, which was for an exhibition called Gentrification. Allison Hall was the curator, and she interviewed all kinds of people on the street of Jersey City.

And then she gave those interviews to artists who answered the call and then based on the interviews you would make a piece of work and people who would visit the exhibition could listen to the interviews and look at the artwork at the same time. And I had just moved to Jersey City just here for like a couple months or a year.

Wow.

Nat Kalbach: And I did it and it was very interesting for me to listen to the interviews. And I actually should go back now and see if I still have the files and see what people were saying.

But what struck me was that some people were only seeing Jersey City as a bedside community. They would only sleep here, be on the waterfront in an apartment, and then they would go work. Shop do their cultural stuff all in New York City and be only here to sleep.

That's it. And I was like, that is so weird to me. That sounded so weird. Right? Yeah. And so I think part of it is also for, I hope that some of the newcomers listen to it and, be like, Thaler like tell me about a time, what is this place about? Right.

Yeah. So, yeah. Long-winded answer. So for me, for everyone. For everyone, absolutely. For everyone.

Chelsea Castro: Podcasts are for everyone. I get it though. I think that what I'm hearing from you is a sense of honoring what was before. You know, and honoring what was before does not mean on your hands and knees being stuck in your ways and having to do everything as it was.

I think that sometimes when I talk about historic preservation, and I don't know if you have this experience, but sometimes when I talk about it, it's immediately people turn off. You're trying to keep things as they worry. You're trying to freeze things in time. And I think that it's a really unfortunate misconception because I think that when you say the words historic preservation, people see you wanting to keep an old building that's about to fall apart and they think, well, I'm gonna put a new building there and it's gonna be better and it's gonna serve everyone better.

And I think maybe people don't have the experience of, or even the perspective that historic preservation, we didn't say historic building preservation. It's preserving the history of the area, preserving culture. Like, how could we forget Kelly? Yeah. I know you mentioned we took a class with her, she's one of those people who Yes. You and me already valued preserving narratives. We worked on an oral history series when we were both on the Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy, Miss Mary, Miss India Edwards.

And I think we saw firsthand what it meant to just value a story and what that meant for a city. People like Miss India, are unfortunately are no longer with us, but that to me is Jersey City now. Yeah. For the rest of my life, she'll be Jersey City now, you know, because her experience is one I could have never lived, as a black woman even trying to buy a home in an area that was redlined. Something we can't even imagine now. But that's Jersey City and Kelly, to bring it back, was one of those people who, when she talked about, you know, the neighborhood that she worked on getting historic designation.

To inform people that we're not trying to preserve this so that some, I don't know, white post-college trust fund kid could come in here and take your beautiful historic apartment, but it deserves to be preserved because the Caribbean population came here. In time of, what was it like a white flight pretty much that kind of happened. And they made it their own. And they took this neighborhood and created something so beautiful that honored who they are. And that's actually a huge part of what needs to be preserved, not the original people who came here. And that's a huge part of the narrative, don't get me wrong. Right. But that something so beautiful and so important was created here.

That's why I just think that yeah. Historic preservation, I want people to hear that. We want to preserve things that were here before and honor those things. Honor the stories, honor the restaurants, the businesses, things that might no longer be here, like 111 first street, or Roosevelt Stadium. The stories that we've heard. Right. I know you and I have heard about, about, you know. Baseball games that happened there. Right. And people skipping work and it being like, what is it, 30,000 people in attendance or something? Don't quote me.

Right. On a middle of a work day to see a baseball game there. And then having Miss India who was like 103 years old at that time, raising her hand I was there. Yes.

Chelsea Castro: And we're all, and we're just sitting there like,

Nat Kalbach: What

Chelsea Castro: The thread is here. Yeah. The tie is here. And, and I'm sorry, but like history doesn't matter if nobody was there.

You know, history matters because the people who were there, and Miss India saying that, like, oh my God, it literally makes me emotional. Because it was one of those moments where we were in a room, just to give context, it was at the Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy Award ceremony, in 2023.

And we were giving an award to the New Jersey Skate Shop for their collaboration with the New Jersey room. At the library, the Priscilla Gardner main library, because they worked with the New Jersey room so closely to get components of Roosevelt Stadium that's notably 440, and do a collaboration with New Balance and recreate one of their sneakers, the 440, and make a Jersey City Edition.

And they carefully have a detail on the inside tongue with the Colgate clock. And then they have parts of the floor plan of Roosevelt Stadium and the shoe. And that's actually when we had the moment of them speaking about this insane experience where this game happened. And Miss India was there in that moment.

And it was moments like that where I'm like, well, damn. Yeah, Jersey City is it, right? I don't know. Maybe, maybe it's pride. I don't know. Maybe I'm a proud person. Right. Of course. People are very proud. But Jersey City is it. There's so much here and I hope that newcomers are a little bit different than the time that you made that artwork.

Right. And they're not just sleeping here and living in New York because I go to New York, we go to New York, we hang out in New York, everyone goes, come on, what you gonna know? But it's also hearing those stories and I'm writing this book right now, which is called If These Walls Could Talk, which is a story about my house, which is the old lady, and she's talking about all these people in the house and their stories, and they were all part of the fabric of Jersey City's story. And that's what brought me to these idea to do the podcast. But, the thing that I was thinking is like, when you do that, you also go a little bit further out, and then you're like, this is also the history of America.

Like what, what happened in these places with different people and from different cultures or way of lives and rich people, poor people, medium income, like Yep. That is like a placeholder. Yep. It really makes you understand at least like maybe the East Coast, like it makes you understand more and more about where we came from, where we are going to, like what can we learn from that.

And the other part is also learning about we are all people. Yeah. Right? Like we are in this like highly diverse, Chelsea and I talk about that all the time. Highly diverse times.

And it's so hard to discuss things and have different opinions with people and talk about it. And learn from people from all ways, ways of lives. We are all people and we have all opinions.

And maybe in some points we might not 100% agree, but just having the time and listen to someone and giving someone the opportunity to tell their story and be heard, I think is so, so important that it's a good lesson.

Chelsea Castro: Yep. You can't move anywhere in Jersey City without bumping into some sort of narrative about migration. You know, it is, I don't know. It's always rated in the top of most diverse cities in America. And with this podcast, you've given the opportunity to people to share their lived experience.

We're in a time where I think people are very careful about what they say. And I think people hesitate to have conversations because I think that we're in a moment where people are very, very fearful of friction.

Um, and I don't mean like anger and disagreement. But sometimes it's just friction that, you know, you have a slightly different perspective and that feels uncomfortable right now because everything feels maybe a little bit unsafe or volatile. But just to be able to open the floor for somebody and let them speak their truth and share why they care about something.

I think that's incredible because I think that at least from my perspective, I don't want to say we, because I think everyone lives a little bit differently and some people have done some amazing inner work and are very hyper aware of the world around them at all times. But I think that we've gotten really stuck in the pleasantries because of the way things are going.

And to sit and create a space and say, no, for real. Why, why do you care? Why did you do it? I think every single person deserves to have a moment to celebrate that. I think that people are not even celebrating their wins enough. And I think that, yeah. I think that, you know, this is not a plug, I was not asked to say this, but I feel this way as your friend and someone who has very similar interests as you, is that you should be super proud to do something like this.

I do. I do. I really feel that way. I think you should.

Nat Kalbach: I did not pay her. No,

Chelsea Castro: She's not paying me anything. No kidding.

No, but I really do think you should be proud because I think that people, it's gonna be corny. Buckle up. I'm gonna sound like a Hope Core video.

Oh boy. But people always say one day, but like, by you doing this podcast, you're like, day one. You know what I mean? You did it. You did it. And we, and you've talked about this for a while. Yeah. And to actually do it and bring on these people is really amazing. And I hope that people are listening and feel this sense of joy and happiness about their city and about each other. Because I think that, you know, it sounds corny, but gosh darn it, there's not enough joy to go around these days.

So, thank you. Of course. Check's in the mail. Oh gosh. Thank you. You better postmark it correctly.

Nat Kalbach: There will be a little break and then I already have lined up the list of people that I want to ask. I have asked some people, I think it might be a little bit more art related.

But I have also some other candidates that I'm very excited about in terms of like, does it have a similar theme? Well, it's stories, sidewalk stories, of course.

Sure. But I think it's like more fun to see what people have in common afterwards. Like Yes. After the season, just like we did this time.

Chelsea Castro: I don't think you could have foreseen the commonalities between your guests. Absolutely not. Because every time I logged on to listen, I was like, okay, well let's see where it goes.

And at the end I was always shocked by the way, there was a commonality. And I didn't feel like there was any guided this in any way. These guests just sort of had this like, natural synergy. But Nat, I think it's, I think it's your turn. Oh geez. What? If you could talk to anyone from Jersey City's past anywhere, street place, who would it be and where? Did you think you were gonna make it out without answering your own question?

Nat Kalbach: Oh, that's so hard. I would definitely want to also meet someone who lived in my house just because I'm doing all the research. Absolutely. And the stories here a default.

Yeah. There were so many super interesting people here but one family that lived quite long in here was Dr. Doody's family.

The family lived in the house from the beginning of the twenties to the mid fifties.

Doctor Doody and his wife, they had three children. And remind me when your house was built.

Chelsea Castro: Your house was built.

Nat Kalbach: It was built in 1890 and was always like a rental. Okay. And so it was the first time that the building changed ownership after it was built and the first time that the people who owned it also lived in the house. Wow. Special. But there are many, many very interesting stories about the Doody's. The children, the doctor himself.

He was an Irish psychiatrist. But one of the stories that is the most interesting to me, which made me actually go into the book is that Cooper Hewitt's widow was in Jersey City at hotel and she tried to commit suicide. And that was, by the way, not legal back then, which is kind of crazy in and itself. That's nuts.

Yeah. And then she was admitted to the clinic where Dr. Doody was at the Beacon. Now the Beacon. And so she was committed, but it wasn't under her name.

So what happened was that she was married to Cooper Hewitt, and they had a daughter. And in his will, Cooper Hewitt, very rich, had stipulated that if his daughter, by the age of 21 would be childless, all the money would go to his widow. And so she had her daughter before she turned 21, admitted to a hospital in California, under the pretense to her daughter that there was something with her appendix and that was not true.

They sterilized her, the doctors. Wow. So that came out. And then she was wanted in California to go to court. And she was like, no, I'm traveling from New York and check in under a false name in a hotel in Jersey City.

And I think she pretended the suicide as well because she didn't want it to get extradited to California. And this was a big case. What went on for a long time in Jersey City because they kept her also because she was trying to commit suicide, which was not legal.

But then also, Dr. Doody kept on saying she's not well and she should stay and she can't go. So when I was reading that, I was thinking, did Dr. Doody come home and sit in this very room where we sit right now? And this case was like all over the news, as you can imagine.

It wasn't just a Jersey City thing, it was like everywhere. I found original press photos of the daughter, of her, you know, of Oh my gosh, Dr. Doody with the mother at court here in Jersey City. And so, my question was always, did he come home and talk to his wife about this?

Chelsea Castro: Wow.

Nat Kalbach: So if I could, I would meet Dr. Doody in this room here in our dining room, and would ask him what he thought about his patient and what he thought about the horrible thing that she did to her daughter. And how he felt as a doctor. Did he have any moral, like how did he like cope with that?

I'm sure he had an opinion, right? Or maybe he was a really good doctor. And he was like, I'm not gonna judge that. I don't know. I just would love to hear more about his perspective on that maybe I should rather talk to his wife. She might be telling me more.

Chelsea Castro: That's, Hey, women would not be anywhere in the world if it were not for gossip. It's information sharing. See, it's information sharing.

Absolutely. We're just sharing information. It's for the greater good. I think that's amazing. Yeah. I would talk to Gertrude then. Gertrude.

Nat Kalbach: Gertrude. One of my favorite names. Don't tell anybody

I'm gonna talk to her maybe then she could dish out and talk a little bit more about it.

Chelsea Castro: I think she probably knows her husband very well.

Nat Kalbach: Yeah.

Chelsea Castro: And might know his true sentiment even though he didn't share it with her. Because maybe there is a world where he has this woman who potentially tried to commit suicide, potentially tried to protect herself, who did this heinous thing to her daughter with this sterilization just for money.

Which is absolutely insane. And Cooper Hewitt should have, if he wanted to create such a, that's also such a weird insane will, yeah. Maybe keep it to yourself. Yeah.

Maybe he was like, maybe I'll say she's not ready to keep her here longer to protect her. Maybe he had sympathy for the woman. Or maybe you're right. Maybe he was an objective doctor and felt that she wasn't ready. But imagine the cases that Dr. Doody probably, I don't know, lamented over or worried over with his wife and his kids.

That's, that's a great one. You'd get a lot for the book. That'd be, I'd love that. I'd love that. I can't wait to read the book. It's like you're gossiping with your house.

Nat Kalbach: We made it, we did it. We did it. Are you coming back for the end of season two?

Chelsea Castro: You know, if you'll have me, of course. I would love to. I can't. I'm gonna take voracious notes for every episode and then you're gonna do the same thing. We're gonna stop in the middle. Yeah. And then I'm also gonna be along the journey to not know what happens in the end, but like I said, I'm so excited for what's to come and I think this has been an incredible journey, one that you should be so proud of, and I'm so happy we're already talking about season two because I'm on the edge of my seat.

Nat Kalbach: I loved having you, Chelsea, as always.

Chelsea Castro: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Nat. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

Nat Kalbach: Wow. Thank you, Chelsea. That was really a wonderful conversation. I had a lot of fun. I hope that it captures not only for us, but also for you listeners, the spirit of discovery and connection that drove this entire first season. And I really loved hearing about Chelsea's insights, what she thought about the recurring themes or what was special for her, but also talking about democratized culture, community care, and the power of showing up, which I think really illuminates what makes Jersey City so special.

And as I wrap up season one of Nat's Sidewalk stories, I'm really filled with gratitude for all the remarkable people who shared their stories with us. From Charlene Burke's lessons about persistence and civic engagement to Jin Jung's ceramic markers preserving forgotten histories to Ted Chubb opening his home as the Statuary for world class jazz.

Really each conversation revealed new layers of what makes our community so vibrant. On a personal note, what I'm preparing right now while I am taking a little break is I'm pretty excited to announce that I have a solo art exhibition that will be opening on September 6th.

I have been working on this now, so that's why I'm taking a break too. And that will be opening at Novado Gallery, featuring paintings inspired by many of the neighborhoods here in Jersey City. And if you're interested and if you want to see instead of listening, then I hope you will come and you find more details on my website or Instagram.

But even though I am totally in painting and preparing for this, season two is already in the works. And I can't wait to continue these sidewalk stories with you. I will be back with new conversations that dig even deeper into the creative spirit and hidden histories that define our neighborhoods.

To all our guests from season one, Charlene Burke, Kelly Carroll Jin Jung, Tris McCall. Thaler Pekar, Colin Egan. Irene Christodoulakis, Ted Chubb, Ann Wallace Kim Correro and Chelsea Castro. Thank you so much for your time, your wisdom, and your dedication to making Jersey City a place where stories matter. And until we meet again on these sidewalks, keep exploring, keep listening, and keep discovering the remarkable stories beneath your feet.

I see you back in October. Thank you for listening to Nat's Sidewalk Stories. I'm your host, Nat Kalbach. Our theme music is How You Amaze Me, composed by Jim Kalbach and performed by Jim Kalbach Bryan Beninghove. Charlie Siegler and Pat Van Dyke. You can find show notes, more information about my guests and related content on my substack or natkalbach.com

Bye.